Topic Title

I have a couple of questions about window sills in DC12.

I'm trying to get the proper appearance of the window sills to show what I want in both 2D and 3D at the same time. As you can see in the plan image, there is no line for the opening in the brick veneer at the window sill because I want the actual window sill to set back from the face of the veneer as in the perspective image.





It seems that the wall itself does not show a line for the opening as it should to properly show that the opening does not go to the ground. Is there some setting (like wall plane section height) for the wall that will allow a lighter weight line to be shown for an opening within a wall that does not go all of the way to the floor/ground?

Also, it seems that I will have to create a different window type for a typical wall without a veneer (window will fit within the full width of the frame wall) and a separate window for walls with different veneer thickness (4" brick vs 6" stone, etc.) as the way a sill is set up the window is no longer from face-of-wall to face-of-wall, but from flush with inside face to (approximately) 1" past outside face of frame wall. This means that it's outside offset could vary from -3" from the face of a 4" veneer, -5" from the face of a 6" veneer, etc. Is this the case, or is there some combination of settings within the window type that will allow the window frame and sill to offset properly regardless of the thickness of the exterior veneer. I have tried several combinations and have not hit on one yet, but I probably have not tried every permutaion yet.

Any enlightenment in this area would be welcome.

If I'm understanding the question correctly, then having the window jamb offset from the inside should work. This option is located under the "Jamb" tab; "Offset From Wall: Outside - Inside"

If I'm understanding the question correctly, then having the window jamb offset from the inside should work. This option is located under the "Jamb" tab; "Offset From Wall: Outside - Inside"

Well, unfortunately, no, this doesn't work. This only moves the jamb, not the sill. Each part of the window is controlled individually, which is both good and bad. It is actually possible to have the head, jambs and sash sit completely outside of the wall with the casing and sill sitting within the wall. See the image below for an example. I have shown it within the window manager here, but this is the way it also ends up set within a wall.




Any other ideas?

Hello Tico,

May be you could think about a 2D symbol for the 2D representation of the window.

A regular window with sill extension:


Here is another with the appearance you'd like, with sill extension with a negative value:


Hope this helps,
Miguel

Using the "Use Symbol 3D" option under the "Sash" tab might get you what you are wanting. Using this, you can customize the window, sill, and trims however you want. If needed, you can also select the "Use Symbol 2D" option under the "2D Options" tab.

If you don't have any 3D windows symbols available to use for this, you can create the window sash, muntins, and glass using the "Window Type Manager" and then use the "Extract 2D/3D" tool. Add or adjust the sill and trims from the extracted 3D entities and save that as a symbol to be used as a customized smart window.

Miguel,

Thanks for the feedback. How did you get the second image in plan view showing the sill set back in 3D and a line showing the brick below at the outside wall? Was this with a symbol for the 2D plan? I was able to get the appearance you show here in 3D but the 2D representation of that lacked a line showing the brick sill below.

I was trying to avoid having to do this. Having to create a symbol for what is a very typical situation in residential construction seems like I'm going back to DCPlus where just about all of the "smarts" were based upon creating a symbol for everything. I was hoping that DC12 would be much "smarter" than that.

Michael,

Thanks also for the reply. Again, I am trying to NOT have to do what I've been doing for the last 5 or 6 years in DCPlus. Having to create a symbol for everything. That doesn't seem very "smart" to me. It's almost going back to using AEC_MODL and polygon walls.

I hope that these issues, along with arched windows, etc. will be addressed very shortly in an update.

...How did you get the second image in plan view showing the sill set back in 3D and a line showing the brick below at the outside wall? Was this with a symbol for the 2D plan?

Yes, Tico. It is a symbol for 2D plan.

I was trying to avoid having to do this.

I can understand your point.

But there are some attenuating circumstances for such a challenge of merging a 3D object into a 2D representation.
You must consider that a 2D representation is mostly ruled by conventions, and only a minor part would actually be a 2D representation of the 3D object modeled, like its face, a line, a polygon, etc.

Perhaps one of the "solutions" could be the implementation of a 2D editor for the 3D model, what would require from you a set of choices, additions, subtractions, etc., that may be could require from you an extensive work for creating this "constrains".

I consider that the 2D symbol can enrich the 2D presentation of a 3D model, and simplify the job, so far.

Well, this is only to contribute to the discussion.

Thanks,
Miguel

But there are some attenuating circumstances for such a challenge of merging a 3D object into a 2D representation.
You must consider that a 2D representation is mostly ruled by conventions, and only a minor part would actually be a 2D representation of the 3D object modeled, like its face, a line, a polygon, etc.

Good point, I suppose. But what I am talking about is so fundamental, that I can't believe that there isn't a method for handling it.

Say, for instance, that you just want to have an opening in a wall, without any window. I can use the door or window manager for that as I cannot see any other way right now. (The "openings" button only works for full height openings, more like cutting a wall than putting an opening in it.)

But when I put an opening within the wall, it looks just the same as if I cut it. Drawing conventions dictate that the opening that still has a wall segment below it should have thinner lines indicating that. But here the two look the same.





Again, I hope that I am missing something and someone can tell me there is a setting that will take care of this as I have not been able to find one.

Nope...you aren't missing anything.
Right now there is no separate Openings menu...hopefully easy upgrade to follow.
As stated above, you can use a symbol in the void created...I use a Dashed line to indicate that header.

Yeah the Openings should really be named Break or Cut. I made some door types using 2D Symbols and 3D Symbols to make the openings the way I wanted them. Worked pretty good actually. My 2D symbol had dashed lines and my 3D symbol was just the jambs as polygons. Gave me a nice wall opening with header where needed.

Ben and Tony,

Thanks for the comments. I have to admit that I like most of what I see here in DC12. And I do think that having the ability to use both 2D and 3D symbols for unusual stuff is great. I just wish that something so basic as a line indicating the wall will below was part of the "smarts".

Have either of you worked with DCPlus? There, EVERY window and door opening needed a symbol, created the old fashioned way. Here, at least, most of the typical stuff is created through the manager interface. MUCH better.

Looking forward to getting the final release and getting to work with it daily.